Bizarre YouTube Censorship

Some friends and I have a YouTube channel called ‘a secular dharma?’.

This channel has long – often boring – discussions about the nature and definition of dharma, and about life in general.

In Sept 2024, YouTube removed a video entitled “Metaphysical Thinking - Father Xmas - Cargo Cults”, posted more than 4.5 years ago, claiming that it violated their “Violent extremist or criminal organisations policy”.

This is a transcript of the section deemed “problematic” by YouTube:

And that is the basis of a collective vision of a collective belonging to something.  And I mean, and the QAnon phenomenon is pretty much the same thing.

It’s a cargo cult in some ways.  Absolutely, yeah.

Yeah, it’s relief from their suffering because I mean, obviously the people who believe this are the ones who are suffering in America.  And they’re feeling something.

They’re feeling something and that something seems to be suffering of some sort.  Yeah, well, and I suspect, yeah, there is a level of suffering there.

Economically, they’re not very well off.  Jobs are under threat, the future’s under threat.

There’s a big change in the demographics.  They’re not getting the sort of things that they had in the past.

And you think, well, somebody’s got to be involved for this and that’s the government.  And if you’ve got somebody who’s going to come along and change the government and look after us, then yeah, we’ll happily support that.

Well, do post up your ideas, your thoughts, because I find them fascinating, very stimulating.  Actually, you did mention something.

What was it?  Oh, yes, about that video from that tech guy in Silicon Valley.

But yeah, I’ll write that.  I won’t do that here.

Basically, it just comes down to a group, some definable group, basically defining goodness, defining this is what it is.  This is the way that we are.

This is the way that we should be.  And full of imperfections and inconsistencies and all things like that.

But at the very least, this is expression of, this is who, this is our identity.  And that’s what he was expressing fairly well, I think.

But lots of groups have that.  I mean, and they try to establish some sort of common sets of practices and basic beliefs, which are usually aimed at some sort of goodness or whatever.

And I see that even in things like military formations and armies and squads within armies, they can all develop these dharmas that sort of pull them together and express some sort of higher good.  Of course, it may well be not a very good outcome, in particular in terms of armies and things, but they do do that.

They do have expressions of dharma within those groups.  So, not convinced?

No, it’s not a case of being convinced or otherwise, it’s a case of what does dharma mean?  I sort of, we get back to, it means goodness.

What does goodness mean?  Is it a relative or is it a fixed thing?

And sometimes I think it’s relative, sometimes I think it’s fixed.  But I think it’s relative.

I think goodness is relative, ultimately.  Because it sort of changes over time.

Yeah, well, I think it has to be, but it has to be relative to that personal group that expresses that particular dharma.  In that case, is it meaningful in any way?

In some way, well, it’s absolute within that group, but relative when it’s looked from outside the group.  Because we could say, well, QAnon have dharma.

Yeah, well, they do.  In fact, you could say that it’s a pretty fucked up dharma.

But could you say it’s fucked up?  I mean, because then what does fucked up dharma mean?

As an outsider, I can make a judgment about their dharma.  I can say, that’s pretty fucked up.

But it’s sort of a Buddhist dharma.  You’re not supposed to make judgments, are you?

You’re supposed to be equanimous, to have equanimity about it rather than judgment.  So, then it gets less.

Because I think that actually, the dharma for me is about the idea that idea of contentment, which the definition of that for me is closeness to how things actually are.  And I don’t think that’s relative.

I don’t think that bit is relative.  So, for me, that would be the only term for goodness, closeness to how things are.

And that means it’s not QAnon dharma.  Because then dharma would become, the word becomes irrelevant, because it would mean two different things.

Now, I am pretty sure that most reasonable people would see this discussion as rather innocuous.

So I contacted YouTube “Support”. This is what transpired:

You are number 1 in the line
Specialist Taylor has joined the chat

Taylor • Support Specialist 16:29
Welcome!  Your case ID is 3-9920000037385.  Refer to this if you need to contact us again.
Hi.  My name is Taylor. How are you doing today?

Gary Dean 16:29
hello.  have you read my message?

Taylor • Support Specialist 16:29
Hi, Gary.
Yes, let me check your concern.
Thanks for waiting.
I understand that you’re reaching out regarding the warning that you received on your channel.
I know how important this is to you as a creator.
I’ll be more than happy to check this for you.

Gary Dean 16:32
Please request the assistance of a Human.

Taylor • Support Specialist 16:33
Let me check the details here to help you.
To help you better with this concern, I’ll go ahead and check this matter further on my end.  Is it okay if I place this chat on hold for 3-5 minutes while I look into this?

Gary Dean 16:34
yes, that’s fine.  thanks.  i’ll hold on.

Taylor • Support Specialist 16:35
Thanks.  Please stay connected.

Taylor • Support Specialist 16:41
Thanks for patiently waiting.
I’m still looking into this for you.  Will it be fine if I ask for a few more minutes?

Gary Dean 16:41
no problem

Taylor • Support Specialist 16:47
Thanks for patiently waiting.
Let me share some details.
Community Guidelines are the rules of the road for how to behave on YouTube.  These policies apply to all types of content on our platform, including unlisted and private content, comments, links, Community posts, and thumbnails.  This list isn’t complete.  If your content violates our Community Guidelines, your channel will get a strike.
We understand mistakes happen and you don’t mean to violate our policies — that’s why the first violation is typically only a warning.  You only get one warning, and this warning remains on your channel.  The next time your content is found to violate the Community Guidelines, you’ll get a strike.  Sometimes a single case of severe abuse will result in channel termination without warning.  If you think we made a mistake, you can appeal the warning.

Gary Dean 16:49
you’ll need to be much more specific.  Please request the assistance of a Human.

Taylor • Support Specialist 16:49
Yes, when you submit an appeal our internal team will review it.
You can check here the details on submitting an appeal: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/185111.

Gary Dean 16:50
i submitted an appeal, and it was rejected without any specifics whatsoever.
Please request the assistance of a Human.

Taylor • Support Specialist 16:52
I see.

Taylor • Support Specialist 16:53
When you submitted the appeal, a human review is done and you receive the response from internal team about the reason for the rejection.

Gary Dean 16:54
no reason was given.  just a copy-paste template that made no sense given the context.

Taylor • Support Specialist 16:55
I understand where you’re coming from.
However, a human review is done on the appeal.  If we find that your content was in violation of our Community Guidelines, the strike will stay and the video will remain down from the site.  There’s no additional penalty for appeals that are rejected.
You may appeal each strike only once.
We know this is probably disappointing news, but it’s our job to make sure that YouTube is a safe place for all.  If we think a channel severely violates our policies, we take it down to protect other users on the platform.

Gary Dean 16:57
I have already appealed and it was rejected by the same AI bot.  Clearly, something is going wrong with Youtube in this case.

Taylor • Support Specialist 16:58
I’m sorry if you feel that way.

Gary Dean 16:59
good grief.
Can i please request that you ask for the assistance of a Human?

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:00
Let me further check.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:01
Thanks for waiting.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:02
As per checking, there are no other appeal option for this warning.
I’m sorry.

Gary Dean 17:02
correct.  and you have made a mistake.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:02
I understand where you’re coming from.
However, the decision is final.

Gary Dean 17:03
no you clearly do not.  the discussion was not disseminating conspiracy theories, it was about conspiracy theories.  and about the type of people that believe in them.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:04
I understand your point.
However, the decision is final.
I hope you understand.

Gary Dean 17:05
please explain exactly what the offence was in the video.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:08
I’m sorry but I am unable to review the video in my end.  The internal team reviewed the video and saw that it violates our Conspiracy theory policy.

Gary Dean 17:08
Ask the “internal team” (who i trust are human) to tell me the exact words/sentences that caused them to be offended.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:09<br
> I understand your point.
However, we are unable to provide the exact details.
I’m sorry.

Gary Dean 17:10
truely, that is pathetic.  and very concerning.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:12
You want to review our Community Guidelines Harmful or dangerous content policy to make sure that you will not violate the same policy in the future: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2801964?hl=en&ref_topic=9282436
Is there anything else today?

Gary Dean 17:12
tell me the “offence” and i will certainly take measures to not do that again.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:13
I’m sorry but we are unable to provide the exact details.

Gary Dean 17:13
then how can i not re-offend if i don’t know what the offence was??

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:15
I understand.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:16
As much as would like to help you, we do not have the information about the details.

Gary Dean 17:17
that is illogical.  i cannot commit to not re-offend if i don’t know what it was that offended you Humans.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:17
The only thing we can share to you is to review the Violent extremist or criminal organisations policy: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9229472?hl=en-GB&sjid=9398659774287870925-AP.

Gary Dean 17:17
good grief.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:18
I understand where you’re coming from.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:19
I understand.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:20
If only I could be of more help, I would definitely do it to leave a smile on your face and reduce your worries.
Should you have further concerns feel free to reach us out anytime.

Gary Dean 17:21
well, you don’t really understand.  you’re only an AI.  though i guess this conversation will make for an amusing post on social media.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:22
I’m sorry if you feel that way.
However, I can confirm to you that I am human.

Gary Dean 17:23
you don’t have to be sorry.  you’re only a cog in a machine.  unfortunately, your machine is broken.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:24
I’m sorry if you feel that way.
Is there anything else today?

Gary Dean 17:24
well, the only thing i can do is to ask you again, what exactly was the offence?

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:25
I’m sorry but we are unable to provide the exact details.

Gary Dean 17:26
so how am i going to not re-offend?  please give me details of how i need to proceed.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:27
The only thing I can share in my end is the article about this policy.

Gary Dean 17:28
does this seem absurd to you?

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:28
You may want to review to help you prevent from violating this policy in the future.

Gary Dean 17:28
sure!  tell me what i did and i’ll certainly fix it!

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:29
As much as I would like to help you inform you about the specific details on the violation, there is no way for us to check it on our end.  I hope you understand.

Gary Dean 17:30
then why do you exist at all?  what is the purpose of this “Help” chat?

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:31
This chat helps to provide basic information about the channel.

Gary Dean 17:31
very, very basic it seems.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:31
We also check if the certain video is eligible for an internal appeal.  However, as per checking, this video is ineligible as the decision is final.

Gary Dean 17:32
please ask for an internal appeal, so that my group knows how we will not offend Youtube again.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:32
I hope you understand our limitations.

Gary Dean 17:33
i understand.  i do not blame you.

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:33
As much as I would like, there is no way to review the video again and provide the details.

Gary Dean 17:33
how do you feel about that?

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:33
You have the option to review the policy details to avoid from violating it in the future.

Gary Dean 17:34
the details are completely non-contextual

Taylor • Support Specialist 17:34
I would feel the same way as you do.
However, there is no other way that I can do here.

Gary Dean 17:35
ok then.  that’s enough for today, thanks, “taylor”.